And Ive brought my mentor with me. The nurse also reported bruises all over Fierceton's body, in different stages of healing, considered an indicator of possible physical abuse. RG: Mhmm. Mackenzie Fierceton has lost her Rhodes Scholarship and her University of Pennsylvania master's degree is being held after an anonymous tipster called out alleged inaccuracies in her school. And at the time I was more in panic mode than like, let me step back and look at this logically, theres absolutely no case, this is an intimidation tactic to try to silence me and sign this NDA and withdraw from the Rhodes and agree to whatever terms they wanted me to agree to you. "How much does one have to suffer to have value? Ultimately she decided to apply for the scholarship, in which she proposed to expand on the subject of her undergraduate thesis, the intertwining of the foster care and juvenile justice systems, to "continue to try to move forward in my life. Even though I had, again, written statements from two ICU nurses who took care of me saying: Yes, there was blood, [laughs] theres photographs, and there still was the argument of like, there wasnt enough blood or your face wasnt so distorted you could couldnt tell who you were. Fierceton finished her Whitfield education on a scholarship while living in foster homes. [2], Two months later the COVID-19 pandemic emerged. So that was, I think later on that specific line came into question. @RachelAviv for @NewYorker It seemed like there was a lack of internal emergency protocols within our grad school, the School of Social Policy & Practice. And again, people, including Penn administrators, have the perception of I think the stereotype and my friend Anea Moore, whos a Rhodes Scholar and graduate of Penn who founded Penn first or co-founded it had a really great quote in The New Yorker about we arent all, quote-unquote something along the lines of like impoverished, inner city kids who go to crumbling public schools as the wider media portrays us to be. Fierceton said later that she had never used the word "poor" to describe herself or her childhood. I think they have said, well, theres different definitions and the dean who is the dean of the grad school said: Well, thats not our definition. Like, I dont have the precise statistics in front of me, but if you asked people to guess at the number of people who will experience, say, two years of poverty in their life, people will miss it by magnitudes. How old were you when you were applying to college? Anything interesting in that that you noticed? RG: So I could imagine why at some point youd be like, you know what, Im just not going to keep taking Ls here. Morrison was arrested and charged with felony child abuse and third-degree assault (a misdemeanor) in the incident that had led to Fierceton's hospitalization, and an additional felony child abuse count for the incident that had triggered the DSS caseworker's visit earlier in the year; the arrest warrant alleged that Morrison had deliberately slammed her daughter's head into the table. And then throughout the now a year and a half process [laughs] of different sort of invented processes that happened, eventually the university was like: OK, I guess shes low-income. woman who won a coveted scholarship in the US to study at Oxford after claiming she was poor, overcame childhood abuse and grew up in foster care lost the opportunity after it emerged she was. But that was definitely a driving force for why I decided, ultimately, to withdraw because I felt like: OK, federal prison is no joke. In a 25-minute conversation, she went into detail with Fierceton about her past and what she planned to do with her scholarship. MF: Yeah. And then the other question was: Are you the first in your family to attend college? And Im glad that people are having the kinds of systemic discussions that are so key to all of this. [2], Morrison's arrest had been reported in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch,[6] where commenters on the online version of the story took her side, speculating that Fierceton was "an entitled brat" who had vengefully fabricated charges that had the potential to end her mother's medical career. Her account was not completely inaccurateshe described as a foster child one sibling of hers who was actually the biological child of her foster parents, for instance, which she attributed later to not having developed her essay at length. She was one of only 32 high school students selected from a pool of 2300 applicants. RG: So one of the questions that you mentioned that they asked was about your essay , RG: which, correct me if Im wrong, but I think it begins saying something along the lines of: Youre in the hospital, you looked in the mirror, and you couldnt recognize yourself, you couldnt recognize your features. 's office explained the decision to drop the charges against Morrison as based on new evidence that had emerged. He died after a medical emergency in a basement of UPenn's Caster Building in 2018. While Kerr noted that Fierceton's three weeks in the hospital was far longer than might be expected given the bruises that led to her admission, she also noted the absence of injuries to Fierceton's back despite having reportedly fallen or being thrown downstairs. But it was just kind of this rapid fire of: If we look at your medical records, are we going to see you had broken ribs and severe facial injuries? Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, claimed she was from a poor background and grew up in foster care when she actually attended private school By Phoebe Southworth 13 January 2022 8:00pm Mackenzie. RG: Nothing I have is persuasive to these people. And that felt very powerful in an institution where the overwhelming majority of people are coming from two-parent households, extremely wealthy, like a whole nother level of wealth that I have really ever seen, in my life in terms of just around me, like the 1 percent to the 0.001 percent. Mackenzie Fierceton was championed as a former foster youth who had overcome an abusive childhood and won a prestigious Rhodes Scholarship. Fierceton says she had not failed any tests; her Whitfield transcript shows she got a B+ in the class. And back in high school, it was a similar thing. Because processes become Kafkaesque very quickly. And if you havent already, please subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week. In its response to Fierceton's lawsuit, the university says its general counsel talked with Hayes, who said that bringing the charges had been the "biggest mistake" of his career. Within days of the article being published, the universitys general counsel was in touch with Mackenzies mother. "[25], "I cannot avoid the sense that Mackenzie is being faulted for not having suffered enough", Norton told The New Yorker. She was diagnosed with post-concussion syndrome and released after three weeks. ")[3], The OSC report also concluded that nothing in her academic record warranted the revocation of either degree. And when will you have finished up your Ph.D.? And because you were not just low-income, actually no income, other than the jobs that you were working nobody has complained about the low-income one, right? [10], Fierceton, who outside of school had also taken on a volunteer position as a birthing doula, decided during that summer to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship to get a Ph.D. at Oxford University in England, encouraged by a classmate who had just won one himself and was impressed by her activism. The court granted Morrison a protection order against her former husband; Fierceton had no relationship with him from that time onward. RG: Yeah. I reached out for a response to the University of Pennsylvania and also Provost Beth Winkelstein and General Counsel Wendy White for a response, as well as to Mackenzies biological mother. But it was definitely something I saw happening sort of this funneling of kids from the child welfare to criminal justice system. So how is a person who is filling out this application supposed to know what definition youre supposed to use? Medical records, records from child welfare services, corroborating letters from detectives and lawyers and elementary, middle, and high school teachers, childhood friends, professors basically everyone who had known me. Yeah. In addition to reiterating many of the themes of comments made by her and her supporters in the previous articles, including criticism of the Rhodes and Penn investigations (the former of which Grim noted she was putting air quotes around when she mentioned it), she expressed a belief that her story had triggered a defensive anxiety in women like Finkelstein and White:[4]. The Intercept is an independent nonprofit news outlet. Mackenzie Fierceton (born Mackenzie Terrell on August 9, 1997; later Mackenzie Morrison,[1]:6364,86) is an American activist and graduate student currently studying at Oxford University. Attached were copies of the Missouri court orders expunging Morrison's arrest and removing her name from the DSS registry. And Im curious where you would pinpoint it, but I would guess that its The Philadelphia Inquirer story that started with an incorrect lead that said: Mackenzie Fierston grew up poor, something very close to that? Mackenzie, for her part, was accepted to the University of Pennsylvania and, in her sophomore year, won a Rhodes Scholarship. Yeah. What kind of a group is that? Im part of a wrongful death lawsuit that was filed in August, 2020. Ryan Grim: This weeks guest on Deconstructed is Mackenzie Fierceton, who was the subject of a recent story in The New Yorker. And that dynamic, I would say, [laughs] probably played a big part in all of this. [2] The psychologist testified that she had seen both mother and daughter during 2007 and 2008. Yes. 2020 College graduate Mackenzie Fierceton (Photo from Mackenzie Fierceton). A week later, Brandt interviewed Morrison again at the police station; this time she said that her daughter had injured herself, saying "I guess she has more problems than I thought." "[3][l], The Chronicle story led to nationwide coverage,[17][18] most of which framed the narrative as Penn and the Rhodes Trust had in their reports, depicting Fierceton as yet another exposed fraud. I cant remember if it was in the Rhodes essay or in another essay that, in hindsight, you wouldve tightened up. Now Im sobbing, Im hyperventilating, and the staff member interrupted and said: Can we have an estimate of how much time is left? Aviv tells the story of Mackenzie Fierceton, a former student at the University of Pennsylvania. And then I remembered that my teacher had told me to write a gratitude list. RG: And I just want to read this for people. In The New Yorker piece, a nurse assigned to Mackenzie is quoted as saying, She had two black eyes, and her hair was full of blood. A trial was held in early 2019 at which she, Fierceton, a psychologist and a DSS investigator testified. In The New Yorker article, one teacher had written: She showed up at my classroom door with a bloodied and battered face and then fainted., And then, Rachel Aviv, the reporter also quotes Sherry McClain, who was a nurse who was assigned to you, she said: She had two black eyes, and her hair was full of blood. And so I wanted to start with where things really started to unravel for you. She chose Fierceton from a list of names she had come up with herself that projected strength, and a petition to the Court of Common Pleas in Philadelphia was accepted. She arrives as a new student at Erinsborough High School and is connected to the . RG: And so where is your story now? [Laughs.]. Later in the year she wrote online that the name change gave her "ownership of her identity" and a sense of agency she had not had before in her life. Fierceton was born August 9, 1997, under the name Mackenzie Terrell, in Danbury, Connecticut,[1] to Carrie Morrison, a physician who would later head the breast imaging department at St. Luke's Hospital in Chesterfield, where the couple lived. [3], Before that happened, Fierceton withdrew from the scholarship on her own. Her mothers name was entered into a registry of abusers. Her mother was a doctor and Fierceton attended a prep school, but she was. And did they say anything along those lines? RG: Like, those two things dont fit together. Some people were very much on my side; some people were very much, I think, in that sort of cognitive dissonance of: This cant be true because if it can, then Im in danger. I didnt really know what it was going to be, but I feel like its always good to have someone with you. In her reading, Tracy came across an article that congratulated Mackenzie Fierceton, a University of Pennsylvania graduate, on being named a Rhodes Scholar. Like, they want to curate a diverse experience for their well-off students, so that they can say that they had this diverse experience in college . And I think its true. In The New Yorker article, one teacher had written: She showed up at my classroom door with a bloodied and battered face and then fainted., RG: And then, Rachel Aviv, the reporter also quotes Sherry McClain, who was a nurse who was assigned to you, she said: She had two black eyes, and her hair was full of blood. RG: Right. The fact that they even challenged that really does expose a lot of whats going on here because I assume in their mind, theyre saying: Well, she went to this private school; she had a nice house; her mom probably drove a nice car maybe you even drove a decent car! [2], A week later, Fierceton received an email asking her to attend a meeting over Zoom with Winkelstein. Rather than it being for the purpose of benefiting the students themselves. And they released this quote-unquote report in April of 2021 with their findings. Fierceton grew up in a wealthy community and attended an elite private school in a St. Louis suburb. RG: or in graduate school. "I really don't have words,'" she told a mentor at the Penn Women's Center. We dont believe you. The New Yorker reported it was written by an anonymous sender who displayed a great deal of familiarity with Mackenzies childhood that showed Mackenzie engaging in typical upper middle-class childhood activities, like horseback riding and going to the beach.. And if you read it aloud, its almost exactly the length of the phone call. But she says she occasionally received packages at her dorm room containing objects she suspected had come from her mother, such as a bracelet with an inscription about finding the truth, or others close to her, such as a pair of sneakers, which she believed Lovelace, who had sometimes helped her stretch before workouts, had sent. [2], Almost three months later, The New Yorker ran a longer article about Fierceton, which had taken the magazine eight months to report and fact-check. There was also the part of me that was terrified. "[2], That feeling was not mutual, Fierceton came to suspect. And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. She is a student who found herself in a complex and easily-misunderstood situation: working towards her degree without support from family. And I kind of felt like things were resolved until the next week when there was more [laughs] more downhill event. "Fuck thatI don't have [a family]" she said later. I tried to help as much as I could. Or is this something thats been overlooked? But Mackenzie Fierceton is not a liar. I have some of my own theories, but I want to hear yours. She began to realize that she had no sense of identity. Mackenzie Fierceton (born Mackenzie Terrell on August 9, 1997; later Mackenzie Morrison, [1] : 63-64, 86 ) is an American activist and graduate student currently studying at Oxford University. A petition to the county circuit court to have the arrest expunged was granted in a one-page order that attributed the arrest to "false information". I was in this private school with a lot of upper-middle class or wealthy white students. Because Im not under any illusion that Im the typical foster kid. They demanded that the university remove the notation from her file. RG: So how is a person who is filling out this application supposed to know what definition youre supposed to use? Mhmm. In any event, The University of Oxford, where Mackenzies doing her Ph.D., has remained supportive, and in the wake of The New Yorker investigation, and the resulting protests from students and faculty, Penn lifted the hold on her degree. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. I said were almost done. And then throughout the now a year and a half process [laughs] of different sort of invented processes that happened, eventually the university was like: OK, I guess shes low-income. Because thats not how we understand poverty. And one of the main things they pointed to was that she had gone to this private school . [2], Morrison retained William Margulis, a former member of Whitfield's board who had sent four of his children there, including one of her daughter's classmates, as her attorney. [2], DSS kept Morrison on its child-abuser registry, as it still believed the allegations to be founded, and a petition to its Child Abuse and Neglect Review Board to have her removed was denied. We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. She feared that her mother had inflicted the injuries, perhaps out of jealousy that Lovelace was attracted to her, even as it seemed to Fierceton that Morrison was "offering [her] up to him on a silver platter". [1]:86, Morrison prospered in her medical career, and she provided generously for her daughter, allowing her to ride horses, go on river rafting trips and attend exclusive private schools, such as Whitfield, in nearby Creve Coeur, where annual tuition was almost $30,000. So the students had to form a human chain from the first floor down to the basement where all our classes are to relay instructions from the paramedics, the Philadelphia paramedics, to the professor who was, to my understanding, performing CPR. One home, during her junior year of high school, was so "toxic" and crammed with other foster kids that she left for weeks at a time, sleeping each night on a carousel of couches at the homes of various friends, she said. And the theme of private school definitely came up many times over the course of the last year and a half. And so if its a well-educated white girl from a private school, thats way too close to home for a lot of these elites. students, defines first generation broadly, including students who have a strained or limited relationship with a parent who has graduated from college. So one question was: Are you from a low-income family? [2], Over the middle of 2020, Fierceton became active in the Black Lives Matter protests at Penn. Who are your biological family? Fierceton joins Ryan Grim to discuss the saga of her battle with UPenn and why the Ivy Leagueinstitution seems to have so much trouble recognizing the complexity of poverty in America. Im part of a wrongful death lawsuit that was filed in August, 2020. At school, she began confiding about her situation with a history teacher, telling them about her mother's physical abuse. [2], In December 2021 Fierceton retained another lawyer pro bono and filed her own suit against Penn, alleging that the university's investigations into her history and how she had represented herself was a "sham", undertaken with the intent of forcing her to withdraw from the Rhodes Scholarship and damaging her credibility as a witness in the Driver suit, constituting tortious interference with a business relationship and intentional and negligent infliction of emotional distress. MF: Absolutely. Its a very under-researched field. And because poverty and abuse are so pervasive in society and particularly in a country that has such a minimal social safety net and has so much violence. And how much confidence do you have that that anonymous complainer was Carrie, your biological mother. Mackenzie Fierceton, a graduate student at the University of Pennsylvania, has won the prestigious and extremely competitive Rhodes Scholarship, which will allow her to study at Oxford in November 2020. And then instantly people started picking her story apart. I cant remember if it was in the Rhodes essay or in another essay that, in hindsight, you wouldve tightened up. Professor Walter Licht, a Penn historian who runs the program, recalls her as the sort of student who would "[ask] a question that makes everyone stop and brings the conversation to a different pitch." She had bruises all over her body in different stages of healing an obvious sign of child abuse.. [2], To White, Morrison repeated her story that her daughter had fabricated the abuse allegations. Like you said, I was called into a meeting. [3], By the end of the interview Fierceton was crying. I cant say how many questions are left and were close to done. Fine. RG: Right. RG: in America. And then The New Yorker adds in parentheses that a Penn spokesperson says: Yeah, well, thats not the definition that we use. Yeah. Or was the real issue that Fierceton did not really fit the profile of a suffering student who needed the benevolence of an Ivy League school?" And so, like I mentioned earlier, I dont want to go over too much of the history that led up to your battle with Penn and with the Rhodes trust, because people can find that in The New Yorker article that came out recently, you went over that in some pretty decent length; in Katie Courics podcast in a recent interview there. And Penn is still claiming that those are fake journals. I mean, youd been taking loss after loss, despite having the facts on your side. "[27], For the Penn investigation, Fierceton relied on the definition on the webpage for Penn First Plus, the university's support program for FGLI students, which includes the language about the student having a "strained or limited relationship" with the graduate parent. At the University of Pennsylvania, she received a bachelor's degree in political science and a master's degree in social work through a combined five-year program. She had lived with her mother since her parents divorced acrimoniously during her childhood, and a guardian ad litem was appointed to represent Fierceton's interests in the proceeding, during which abuse allegations were made. Jay Caspian Kang sounded similar themes in two different New York Times newsletters discussing Fierceton's story. Given the pandemic, Rhodes Scholar judges interviewed candidates over Zoom. So, to cut into the interview here real quick, I wanted to add that Mackenzie is referring to a letter sent to the Rhodes Trust in December 2020. I wrote a poem about the actual what the message was, which is so cheesy and Im cringing at my 17-year-old self [laughs], but it was about the healing power of gratitude. And I was in a kind of unique situation where I applied to grad school at the beginning of my sophomore year of college, because I sub-matriculated. It was more, I think, in the times after and the months after where I ended up like giving different medical records and all of these things to corroborate my account, but there were a few questions that were very specific to what had happened. was truthful, Rafaelle feared that Penn might share its information with the government and if the U.S. Attorney decided to pursue a prosecution, it would be likely to last a long time and consume much of her attention. She was hospitalized twice in 2014 due to injuries she says were inflicted by her mother; after the second stay, which lasted three weeks, the state removed her from the house and placed her in foster care. Penn, by questioning so much of Fierceton's story, was making itself "complicit in a long campaign of continuing abuse", she added. And its funny, cause it just made me so frustrated and I actually went back and read it. Fierceton was mentioned in the complaint as having experienced similar issues following her seizure; she was deposed in the suit in March 2021, the month before the university's investigation led her to withdraw from the Rhodes Scholarship. So Rachel had it and Penn disputed it. Now anyone who earns that distinction is to be commended, but the article also noted that Mackenzie had aged out of foster care . "[I]t was probably from someone in my biological family," she told The Intercept, "because it had photos of me; it had very specific information that very few people would haveand I don't think many people would have random childhood photos of me. MF: So thats the background of him. And I dont remember all of the questions, but it was a really intense, rapid fire of really difficult and challenging questions. Mackenzie is currently suing the university. But part of it is funding decisions. That would have to be the rationale that they would have for those childhood journals to be faked. There were some pretty basic errors, such as my name, my birth name, and my birth place, and claiming that I didnt have a sibling, that I wasnt low-income, a lot of facts that were pretty easily disputed. Theres no cell phone reception in the basement. Thank you so much for having me. The Inquirer story came out in November 2020. And it felt very similar that, well, this cant be real. And so was it later, in a different conversation where they asked about the line in the essay about not being able to recognize yourself or is there some illusion to that in the transcript that you found? And in the U.S., there is much more pressure to pull kids out of homes, right? This was about a week after. She recalled showing up at the foster home with her new clothes in a plastic bag, feeling "like a passenger in my own body", she recalled later. But when you're filling out a box where it's "yes" or "no" and there's no more information or "kind of!" And I was having flashbacks to cross-examinations and depositions Id given about this which later made sense, because we found out that Wendy White had spoken with one of Carries defense lawyers. And I asked again and just said: Ive had different experiences of harassment for the last four years at Penn. I asked specifically about those boxes and the answer I got was again, this was multiple years ago, but it was something along the lines of I dont think that biological parents are relevant to this. [1]:115 As to her previous involvement with the child welfare system, Penn says Fierceton told them she was not certain, but she was referring either to the guardian ad litem appointed for her during her parents' divorce or an earlier incident when she and her biological parents were still living in Connecticut. How do I do that in a succinct way when theres a very short word count and youre trying to fit everyones experience in?And so I didnt really think about: Oh, I need to say: This foster sibling who was in the foster care system. Like what does Penn say when you tell them: Hey, the Penn official who helped me fill this out said that these are the categories that I fit. "They are the people that support you, look out for you, & love you unconditionally. [2] Morrison's bond was originally set at $40,000, but lowered to $5,000 over prosecutors' strenuous objections. In early 2022, after stories about her struggle with Penn and the Rhodes Trust received national attention from stories in The Chronicle of Higher Education and The New Yorker, commentators took the university, and American elite higher education in general, to task for its use of the story of Fierceton and some other recent Rhodes recipients as poverty porn and its shifting definition of an FGLI student. 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