Around 8:30 pm, Greyhound 1170 was an hour west of Winnipeg on the TransCanada Highway. Li pleaded the insanity defense, with his psychiatrist claiming that God told him McLean was evil. His brain was lying to him and convincing him of a reality that was not true. But what about when someone commits a heinous, violent act while in the midst of a paranoid delusion? 5 KILLER TIPS FOR WRITING DEADLY CRIME FICTION, ELEVEN THINGS YOU CANT DO WHEN YOURE DEAD, NO WITNESSES TO NOTHING AMAZON BESTSELLER, STEMI 5 KNOWN REALITIES OF THE UNIVERSE, WRITING DEATH SCENES / PODCAST WITH THE CREATIVE PENN. The absolute discharge does make sense from a legal perspective: the review board is required to choose the "disposition that is the least onerous and least restrictive to the accused." Family and friends of victim Tim McLean, wearing t-shirts remember him, enter the Law Courts in Winnipeg, Canada, March 3, 2009 prior to the trial of Vince Li. Feb 10, 2017 LINDY CHAMBERLAIN DID A DINGO REALLY GET HER BABY? ", Li'sschizophrenia was undiagnosedat the time of the killing. Vince Li was born and raised in China. Try to imagine what Li went through when he woke up from his psychotic episode, when he realized that the reality he was operating under wasnt true. I don't think that should ever be an option.". The police recovered most of McLean's remains, some of which were later found in Li's pockets. On the other hand, convicting someone for an act that they had no conscious knowledge or control over would be barbaric, and in Canada, we dont punish people for doing something they have no control over. The very next morning, Li sold his laptop to a boy. (2013). It was left to the system to deal with Vince Li. July 30, 2018 marks 10 years since the infamous Greyhound bus attack in Manitoba, where one passenger was killed. After he was deemed NCR, he was sent to the Selkirk Mental Health Centre for treatment. WAS NATALIE WOOD MURDERED BY HER HUSBAND, ROBERT WAGNER? It doesnt make any sense to presume that he would willingly do so. JASON HALSTEAD/WINNIPEG SUN, Photo by Jason Halstead/Winnipeg Sun/QMI Agency. It is a priority for CBC to create products that are accessible to all in Canada including people with visual, hearing, motor and cognitive challenges. Tim McLean was an innocent young man. Now, Im an international best-selling crime writer, deadly blogger & film content producer. "I would do anything for (McLean's) family. "My son died this way to shed light on the issue," DeDelley told reporters. Heres where the system is flawed. WHAT MAKES CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TICK? Will Baker, centre, formerly known as Vince Li, leaves the Law Courts building in Winnipeg, after his annual criminal code review board hearing with his lawyer, Alan Libman, right, Monday, February 6, 2017. WERE YOUA HUMAN BEINGDESIGNED BY A HIGHER INTELLIGENCE? Women shrieked. HAS MADELEINE MCCANNS MURDERER FINALLY BEEN CAUGHT? Deemed not responsible. Hes not accountable for his crime in any way. He tried to fight back. A witness said that Li showed no sign of rage or any other emotion throughout the entire attack, with his actions being "robotic" in nature and that he seemed oblivious to the presence of others. Its too high a risk. WAS MARILYN MONROES DEATH ACTUALLY A HOMICIDE? Li might be a small player in the world of murders but hes not unusual. McLean barely noticed, continuing to sleep with his head against the window, and his headphones on. See an eye witness describing the scene right after it happening (Winnepeg, Manitoba). A schizophrenic man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus could know later this week whether he will be granted his freedom. Li slowly sat down. Vince Li, who now goes by Will Baker, was granted full discharge Friday afternoon. Then Li, expressionless behind sunglasses, came for the doorpresenting Tims decapitated head. On July 30, 2008, when Vince Li killed and dismembered Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus, he truly believed that he had just saved the world; that he had been sent by God to kill a demon that threatened not only his own life but also the lives of others. Li held minimal paying jobs at Walmart and did paper deliveries. SUN DANCE WHY CUSTER REALLY LOST THE BATTLE OF THE LITTLE BIGHORN, JOSEPH WAMBAUGH INTERVIEWING CRIME WRITINGS MASTER OF CHARACTERS, MISTER BIG UNDERCOVER STING CONVICTS ANOTHER COLD CASE KILLER, GET YOUR EROTIC BDSM KINKS AT THE SOUTHWEST LEATHER CONFERENCE, AMAZON FREE E-BOOK NEW YEARS PROMOTION NO LIFE UNTIL DEATH BY GARRY RODGERS, MERRY CHRISTMAS & WHATSUP FOR 2019 WITH GARRY RODGERS WRITING, THE ASTOUNDING SECRET BEHIND LEONARDO DA VINCIS CREATIVE GENIUS, UNCONVENTIONAL CRIME WRITING WITH L.A. SCREENWRITER & NOVELIST JENNIFER GRAESER DORNBUSH, KUDOS TO WHOEVER WHACKED GANGSTER JAMES WHITEY BULGER, THE MOTHER FROM HELLMUNCHAUSEN SYNDROME BY PROXY, DONALD TRUMP UNDERSTANDING THE PRESIDENTS PERSONALITY WITH ENNEAGRAM PSYCHOLOGICAL TYPING, DEVELOPING THE MILLION-SELLING INDIE AUTHOR MINDSET WITH ADAM CROFT, CHARLES MANSONS REAL MOTIVE FOR HIS CULT MURDERS, HOW COPS HARASS CITIZENS THE WETASKIWIN, ALBERTA WAY, SECRETS OF WRITING BESTSELLING CRIME THRILLERS WITH SUE COLETTA, RFK ASSASSINATION THE SECOND GUNMAN EVIDENCE, WILDLIFE TROPHY HUNTING THE ECONOMICS, ETHICS AND EMOTIONS, WHY AMERICA CANT EFFECTIVELY CONTROL GUNS. I believe he needs to be in an institution that addresses those needs. "If he's not responsible for his own behavior, then the state, the government, must step in and be responsible for him for the rest of (his) natural life.". WHAT REALLY BECAME OF CAPTAIN KIDDS BURIED TREASURE? He will be escorted at all times by a staff member and a security officer. If you are a Home delivery print subscriber, unlimited online access is, Never miss a beat in Canadian Curling with the new On The Rocks newsletter, Stay Posted on Canadian Curling with the On The Rocks newsletter, Call Vince Li ('Will Baker') what he is: A cannibal killer who beheaded Tim McLean, WARMINGTON: The Kayla Lemieux show cancelled; no longer at Oakville school, Chris Rock will finally hit back at Will Smith over Oscars slap, Maple Leafs lose to Edmonton Oilers as Connor McDavid scores two Sheldon Keefe must find right fit for new defence, NO JACKET REQUIRED: Blue Jays pack away home run jacket as part of gritty new attitude, Vince Li is pictured at a court appearance in a Portage La Prairie, Man. The Guy on the Greyhound Bus got international attention. TRUE STORY HOW A GHOST CONVICTED A MURDERER, THIRTEEN TERRIBLY CLOSE CALLS WITH NUCLEAR WEAPON ACCIDENTS. The public discourse around the trial has been disheartening, although I do recognize that it largely stems from ignorance rather than malice. On top of that, the chances of being killed by someone who has been deemed not criminally responsible are lower than your chance of being struck by lightning. We encountered an issue signing you up. On July 29, 2008, Li boarded a bus heading for Winnipeg and arrived in Erickson. Presence of mind from the driver prevented Lis escape into the crowd. The innocent and unsuspecting victim was Tim McLean, 22, a carnival worker heading home for a break. "I'm not stigmatizing mental issues. Vincent Weiguang "Vince" Li is a Chinese-Canadian man who, on July 30, 2008, brutally killed and cannibalized a 22-year old Canadian man Timothy Richard "Tim" McLean, Jr.. After being apprehended following a 1-day stand-off, Li was found not guilty by reason of insanity and spent six years in a mental hospital before being released in 2015. Vince was granted supervised walks within his mental facility as voted by the provincial review board on the 3rd of June, 2010. Then Li stood. GLOSSOPHOBIA OVERCOME YOUR FEAR OF PUBLIC SPEAKING, DEMYSTIFYING SHOW VS. TELL IN FICTION WRITING, THE REAL AFGHANISTAN FROM A MARINE RECONS VIEW, HOW SPECIAL OPERATION FORCES FUNCTION IN CATASTROPHES, CJ LYONS DIRTY LITTLE SECRETS OF PUBLISHING, POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER IS A NASTY BITCH, WHY YOUR CHARACTERS GOAL NEEDS TO BE 1 OF THESE 5 THINGS, THE MISSING BULLET IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION, THE MYSTERY NOVEL AND THE HUMAN FASCINATION WITH DEATH, FORENSIC ENTOMOLOGY HOW INSECTS SOLVE CRIME, 5 HISTORY CHANGES IF JFK WASNT ASSASSINATED, 6 TACTICS FOR THRILLER WRITERS FROM SEAL TEAM 6, 5 WAYS RE-POSTING OTHER BLOGGERS CONTENT RIPS THEM OFF, HOW TO TELL GREAT STORIES IN THE WORKPLACE. Please try again. Staggering snowfall in California mountains leaves residents trapped for days, SpaceX launches new crew to space station, Video shows deadly Greek train crash as station boss admits "error", Blinken, Lavrov meet briefly as U.S.-Russia tensions soar, Prosecution wraps case at Alex Murdaugh murder trial, White House cybersecurity strategy pivots to regulation, Explosive found in checked luggage at Pennsylvania airport, feds say, Rape kits from two women lead to arrest in 1979 murder of one of them, Several hospitalized after Lufthansa flight diverted to Dulles due to turbulence. He could have never expected the reality that awaited him outside that Greyhound bus; he probably expected to be met as a hero. A judge was was told at Li's trial four years ago that Li was an untreated schizophrenic. We live in a society in which people are taught CPR in high school, yet next to nothing is taught about anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or many other serious mental illnesses as if this information were not as life-saving as CPR. Now, a passenger across the aisle saw Lis behavior change. He wasnt in a normal, functioning state of mind when he killed Tim McLean. On February 16, 2011, two of the passengers present during the attack filed a lawsuit against Vince Li, Greyhound, the RCMP, and the Government of Canada for being exposed to the horrific beheading. Li listened to what he had to say before; the system should make it harder for thatto happen again. This not criminally responsible due to a mental disability loophole goes too far. We apologize, but this video has failed to load. Vince Li was undiagnosed before he beheaded Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus eight and a half years ago, meaning he has never had to voluntarily stick to a treatment plan. It's so terrifying to me, that he was just sleeping against the window, something literally anyone in that spot would do. He legally changed his name to Will Baker and currently lives free. From 1994-1998, Li worked in Beijing as a computer software engineer. I dont think it matters if youre mentally ill or not. By June of 201015 months after Li was absolved by the criminal justice systemhe started supervised release. Petrified passengers stood outside as traffic whizzed by. On March 5, 2009, a Manitoba court found Vince Li not criminally responsible for the horrific death of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus seven months earlier. I am not free': Witness to killing of Tim McLean, CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices. Li's trial began on March 3, 2009. Thirty-seven passengers were aboard the bus. Li was fired in Edmonton after a strange interpersonal altercation. Now that Vince Li was out of the courts and jails, he was in the care of mental health care workers. Baker was found not criminally responsible (NCR) for killing Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in 2008. Success in mental health is measured by restoring someone to a healthy state and maintaining it. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This means that someone must literally commit the act of the crime, and they must also be in a state of mind to consciously and willfully intend to do so, in order to be found guilty. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Visit us online, and feel free to reach out with your questions or ideas by going to arslonga.media. He earned a degree in computer science then immigrated to Canada in 2001. WHATS YOUR EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE QUOTIENT (E-IQ) SCORE? It was July 30, 2008. Terrified passengers screamed for the bus to stop and massed for the door. Vince Li is not evil; he's sick. The 2008 murder of 22-year-old Tim McLean, attacked as he slept in his seat on a bus about an hour outside of his home town of Winnipeg, was one of the most ultra-violent killings imaginable. And its about proper public protection. It could not have ended any uglier. Li also boarded the bus a short time later. Arlington, VA: Author.https://web.archive.org/web/20100715171115/http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2009-2010/bus_1170/timeline.htmlhttps://web.archive.org/web/20090315135511/http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Health/Beheader%2Bcriminally%2Bresponsible/1356476/story.htmlhttps://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bus-beheader-responds-to-treatment-psychiatrist-1.1031459https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-discharge-1.3977278https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/vince-li-discharge-1.3979861https://www.timslaw.ca/2009/04/18/vincent-li-a-decent-man-according-to-drstanley-yaren/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-the-mental-health-system-failed-vince-li/article17940205/https://steinbachonline.com/local/a-conversation-with-vince-lihttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5980581/#:~:text=First%2C%20relapse%20rates%20are%20higher,increased%20to%20over%2090%253.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3599855/#:~:text=The%20authors%20found%20a%20mean,to%20receive%20maintenance%20antipsychotic%20treatment.Would you like to listen to my content in podcast form? Most of the polled public agreed this was the right decision. By submitting a comment, you accept that CBC has the right to reproduce and publish that comment in whole or in part, in any manner CBC chooses. Li opened Tims chest and tore at his organs. He says he remembers what happened on a Greyhound bus bound for Winnipeg during that midsummer's nightmare in 2008. Coronavirus: What one of the youngest patients in a B.C. Untold time and money were spent in rehabilitating Vince Li. (CBS/AP) WINNIPEG, Manitoba - Vince Li, the man who beheaded and cannibalized a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in Canada, has won the right to be allowed to leave the grounds of the mental hospital where he is being kept, a criminal review board ruled Thursday. Every piece of Tims body was defiled and strewn about the bus. Audience Relations, CBC P.O. Period.. IS MISSING MALAYSIA AIRLINES FLIGHT 370 A MASS MURDER? He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and a victim of circumstances much like the pedestrian creamed in a crosswalk by a drunk. YOURE ON DEATH ROW WHATS YOUR LAST MEAL? Vince Li, or whatever the fuck he's changed his name to, deserves at the very least, a lifetime of professional supervision. WAS ALBERT DESALVO REALLY THE BOSTON STRANGLER? The innocent and unsuspecting victim was Tim McLean, 22, a carnival worker heading home for a break. The week following the attack, Greyhound Canada announced it was pulling a series of nationwide advertisements which included the slogan, "There's a reason you've never heard of bus rage.". By all accounts, Li was described as normal. As de Delley told CTV Monday, He has an incurable illness that makes him do terrible things, and I believe he needs to be in an institution that addresses those needs.. No one argued that. 1 killed, more feared dead and injured after avalanche near Invermere, B.C. In 2009, Vince Li was found not criminally responsible due to mental illness for the death of Tim McLean, a 22-year-old carnival worker who was sitting next to him on a bus traveling near. It was their mandate. On March 5, 2009, a Manitoba court found Vince Li not criminally responsible for the horrific death of Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus seven months earlier. Its also about whats wrong with a broken criminal justice (legal) system and the strange world of forensic psychiatry. Li was controlled and they adjusted his medication. If he's doing well in a controlled environment with regularly administrated medications leave him there but freedom for him? There has to be some permanent restraint put on potentially dangerous people who prove theyre capable of violent acts. TAKE THIS TEST AND FIND OUT. Without warning, Vince Li made a break for freedom. Last week, a Criminal Code review board decided that Li can start having escorted trips off the hospital grounds and into the nearby city of Selkirk. That's an incredibly 90s haircut for 2008. That includes whether it was conclusively proven that Li was out of his mind and had no concept of what he was doing to Tim was wrong. Now that he has received an absolute discharge, the legal checks and balances that once kept his demons at bay have disappeared, and that poses risks for society, writes Robyn Urback. He then decapitated him and proceeded to mutilate and cannibalize his body, eating his eyes and part of his heart. Copyright 2023 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved. He is seems to be still in shock after what he has witnessed. Criminal Minds Wiki is a FANDOM TV Community. THE PSYCHO-BATES MOTEL ON VANCOUVER ISLAND, THE MOOSE HIDE CAMPAIGNENDING VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN & CHILDREN. It wasnt only the dramatics. He described Tims gruesome murder detail-by-detail to his forensic psychiatric team just as a serial killer confesses to detectives. ICU wants you to know, Crime Beat podcast: The Brentwood Five massacre, Part 3, Looking back at the Greyhound bus beheading a decade down the road, Greyhound bus beheading in 2008 cited for drop in ridership, Why parents should watch for symptoms of schizophrenia in adult children, Families of Brentwood 5 victims want Matthew de Grood hospitalized indefinitely, Why Andy Bouvier, whose daughter was nearly stabbed to death, fights for not criminally responsible patients, Mental health experts address concerns from Canadians after Vince Lis discharge, Tim McLeans mother calls it disturbing Vince Li granted absolute discharge, Man who beheaded Greyhound bus passenger granted full discharge, Click or hit Enter to load 11 more Stories. I don't think Vince Li can be trusted to take his medication.". She told me of how she was left to her nightmares and, while Li was being treated with kid gloves, she was abandoned to seek therapy on her own to deal with her emotional trauma. On March 5, 2009seven months after Li took Tims lifeVince Li was found not criminally responsible due to a mental illness. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! There is no actual man in a mask, of course (if there was, there might be grounds for a duress defence a separate issue); rather "the man in a mask" is a euphemism for a mental illness that has you convinced you must hurt others, usually to stay alive. The killing of Tim McLean occurred on the evening of July 30, 2008. The board said the passes should only be granted if Li's treatment team believes his condition is stable and that it would be "appropriate and safe for him to leave the locked ward." To many, it won't seem "right" that someone has to check in with the legal system forever just because he or she suffers from an illness and committed a crime, but at the same time, it's arguably worse to assume that everything is fine, to shrug off whatever act landed the individual in the justicesystem in the first place, and to blindly trust that he or she won't decide one day that medication is no longer needed. Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Its also existentially true that theres nothing stopping you from driving your car into a group of people, yet that doesn't mean you will. In Canada we have legislation in place that would acquit someone, or label them as not criminally responsible (NCR) for their actions, if mens rea was not present in an illegal act. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-discharge-1.3977278. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. NASA didnt know but Canadian students did, Trudeau briefed multiple times since 2019 on election interference, adviser testifies, Huge Jurassic-era bug found outside Arkansas Walmart in super-rare discovery, Missing father of 3 found inside sharks stomach, IDed by tattoo, Massive, multi-year B.C. They contained the scene and attempted to reason with Li. Hed been quiet and distant. Two of them and the driver attempted to save McLean, but Li chased them away with the knife. McLean had his eyes closed and was listening to music on his headphones when Li suddenly stood up and started stabbing him. Its the lunatics running the asylum. It's sad that people forget that the person who did this have family that are innocent of the situation. These guys can get crazier than The Guy on the Greyhound Bus. If you don't see it, please check your junk folder. Read more about cookies here. The mother of a man who was beheaded and cannibalized on a Greyhound bus is criticizing a decision to grant complete freedom to the man who committed the violent crime. Its a travesty. Last May, Matthew de Grood was found not criminally responsible (NCR), meaning he was found to have been mentally ill at the time of the Brentwood stabbings. INTERCONNECT FINDING YOUR PLACE, PURPOSE AND MEANING IN THE UNIVERSE. Once upon a time, Vince Li posed no significant threat to the public, and then he went off his meds with no one knowing. IS A SERIAL KILLER LOOSE ON THE HIGHWAY OF TEARS? Tim McLean, 22. Wouldnt it be funny if we started a restaurant. Something to consider about killersthey can be very, very good actors. The defense. markbonokoski@gmail.com Your Midday. "Kill them, or I'll kill you.". First, Li has already stated he is open to voluntarily having his medication monitored. This gruesome murder happened on a bus loaded with 38 passengers. SIMPSON GOT OFF MURDER, STEPHEN KINGS SURPRISINGLY SIMPLE SECRET TO SUCCESS, BEYOND THE LIMITS NEW BASED-ON-TRUE-CRIME SERIES BOOK RELEASE, HYBRISTOPHILIA THE BONNIE & CLYDE SYNDROME. The reason Li had so dramatically short-circuited in 2008, and had begun to hear voices urging him to kill? Its important to understand the difference between Vince Li suffering from psychosis and Vince Li. And its just as important to understand the difference between Vince Li before July 30, 2008, who didnt understand his illness, and Vince Li now, who has all the reason in the world to understand, and treat, his illness. In 1999, however, the Supreme of Canada ruled that people found not criminally responsible for their crimes must be given an absolute discharge without restrictions or conditions if they no longer pose a significant threat to the public. Its exactly like it never happened. They took Li to a secure hospital. 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