In response to a tweet by a critic questioning Wagners seeming humility when he announced he was taking a leave of absence in September, Wagner tweeted: Mission accomplished. Wagner later deleted that tweet. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. In my opinion, its best to have the teaching statement serve as the unifying statement that covers both members and elders, so that those who attend and who are working through their beliefs dont prematurely sign a membership covenant that in reality places them under the pastoral authority of elders who adhere to the teaching statement. Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. Not sure how much of a money maker it is since all we spend money on is the workbooks. That is one huge cult. That is only for the married folk. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. Todd gave me support and comfort during a rough time in my life, and I will be FOREVER grateful. Photo taken March 7, 2014. There are no congregational votes nor do individual members have a 'say' in how things are handled. This was the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday school. Move away 2.Join another (approved) church 3. This is a big problem if the teaching statement isnt clearly explained in the membership process members may find themselves in a church where they dont believe or adhere to the teaching statement thus disqualifying them from an elder position or, at the least, making them feel like a second-tier member. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. in ones own city or metropolis, for starters. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Ashley Ruiz alleges in a lawsuit that a member of the International Churches of Christ sexually molested her when she was . Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. Watermark might want the groups to be run a certain way, but that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules. Yet it turns out they are getting people toRead more , Hi to all, Ive been a member of Watermark for over three years, went through Re:Generation and now co-lead a community group. Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. Thanks for giving up the last word. I covered this in my previous post, When Is a Church Member Fair Game, referencing a case of church discipline that Watermark carried out publicly against one of its members. I guess we just arent ALL as brave as Todd to resign or be open about confession or a need to step back. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. a lavish lifestyle is contrary to everything Jesus stood for if Jesus still matters, and if anyone actually remembers. Todd could use he had no use for you. Many won't perform gay marriage. As directed by Scripture, Watermark makes a distinction between regularly attending and being a formal member of our church. Or evasion? If your Parents were not rich and someone. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. The preacher they were to install couldnt preach well. When he stepped into an executive pastor role a few years back he didnt like that his replacement (JP) was more poly than he was so he didnt allow him to pastor/lead. The Yelp algorithm is strange. The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. Wow! Where are you getting this information? Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. I went through the Re:Engage program twice early in its development. Tim The information is on Watermark Churchs website: Voluntary Member Termination: Members who move from the local area, change churches, or no longer meet the requirements for active Membership may be removed from Watermark Membership.. But please make sure your referencing the right guy. Ive spoken to these people and I believe them. You made friends with whoever you wanted to and you shared what you felt like sharing. I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. Watermark Church Lawsuit. Darren, heres what I see are the problems with Elder-Rule church government. They gossip. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. I think you may have missed a decimal point according to the link in the post his house (verified to be the correct Todd Wagner) was a little over $1.5 million as of 2019. and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. The man and his wife were Watermark members. A church membership contract errr. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the house you mentioned. Our online editing platform simplifies the process for any action you may want to do with Church Membership. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. Having community is not the issue its how Watermark DEFINES community. Again from the Watermark Church document: 1.Voluntary termination of Membership is available to any Member in good standing upon written request of that Member. In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. Elder and staff member David Leventhal stepped down in late March, citing "an erosion of trust" in Wagner's ability to lead. Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. Problem with a church goers these days is (they are simply judgmental- half the time without any knowledge or discernment. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. It is an interesting discussion. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). A Texas appeals court will decide whether the Watermark Community Church went too far in its attempt to save a church member's marriage. Gateway Church. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. Small group of meeting once a week. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed. I think you need to expand on the 4B Spiritual Assessment forms. what is lavish? Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. Our daughters went to the same grade school and were on the same soccer team. The elders at Watermark, along with Wagner and Leventhal, announced the resignations at services yesterday. They gave you a false fraudulent form of love, because it was ConditionalRead more , I dont want to make light of this, but I do want to say that this is beyond misleading. In principle it was excellent. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! One person complained that her husband was forced to tell his community group how much he made and to account for how he spent his money. Smarmy Dictionary According to a report by National Public Radio, the Catholic Church has paid more than $3 billion in child sexual abuse lawsuit settlements in America alone. I verified it. Ive been freed for nearly 10 yrs now with cigarettes, alcohol snd sex until wife had been given, The teaching statement wasnt explained to me in the membership process. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. Sounds like the perfect target for attack, I was looking at Watermarks governance section on its website and two things stuck out to me: 1) they have 2 doctrinal statements, one for members and one for elders and 2) they are Elder-Rule, Elder-Led. seems pretty far-fetched to me, but sure makes for a great explanation and a great story (if youre not Todd or the supposed wealthy person, this is what you were told). obey your leaders? It was a class before the main church service where people around the same age as you sat in a room, listened to a bible lesson, maybe interacted a bit, shared prayer requests, took up a small offering, held hands and said a closing prayer. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. If by community you mean confessing every single sin in your life to a group of virtual strangers, disclosing your personal financial information, and seeking the approval of the group to change jobs, buy a house, start a family then no,Read more , Christian community can have so many different levels, and not everyone is seeking the same depth in all relationships. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Thats the other dallas todd wagner who is mark cubans partner. A calendar of future events, classes, Bible studies, and programs happening with Watermark Community Church. I have first hand experience with a senior pastor doing exactly this and teaching younger families how to properly budget and cost of having kids. Im heart broke and still excited to see what Lord and how He is going to carry out this. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Usually blood in the water attracts sharks, but nothing that fierce here, just a bunch of blood sucking remoras. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. Stonebriar Community Church. Different guys. I didnt feel the spirit when I heard him. Watermark Family, Throughout the fall, we have shared that, as an Elder team, we have focused on three main priorities: Strengthening our leadership team Reengaging our members in the life and ministry of the church Equipping our body for a changing world Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. **THEIR shepherds** Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. I keep coming back to this because something just doesnt seem right. But it still feels like something is off. Im thankful you have experienced the controlling, entrapment, and triangulating side of WM. This case was filed in Dallas County Texas Courts, Dallas County Texas Courts At Law located in Dallas, Texas. . +++++++++++++++. Does anyone know if the Re:Engage marriage program that Watermark started is worthwhile? Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. utterly un-credible. This piece has been updated. https://www.watermark.org/about/governance. * For What? Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. It appears to attract a fairly high income crowd if their building program is any indication of the amount of money coming into the church. Todd Wagner was preaching. Watermark Community Church abuse. Considering thatRead more , Dave It is disingenuous to minimize someone elses experience just because you did not witness it yourself. I am so tired of the evangelical industrial complex justifying there greed and sexual abuse and bullying. Im sorry to hear of judgement that has been passed around. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. Help me to understand. Problem with the churches these days is many in congregation will do same thing as Judas did, deny !! It is not as simple as walking away. Yeah, I glanced at it. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). You cant find any. It also lists Fellowship Church and Village Church in its top 10 on cults (Village likely is, Fellowship is more of a personality cult centered around Ed), strangely Gateway Church isnt listed (and several people think it may be more of a personality cult than Watermark or Village). I know him on a first name basis, as I do some of those elders on the stage. I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. We also get your email address to automatically create an account for you in our website. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. No One Knows. Im not taking about prosperity- Also I probably would be off my depression meds. I have never met so many people using the term spiritual abuse asRead more , Concern, Who are you to judge!? This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). Sounds like something Whoopie Goldburg would say. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. . I am praying for you in San Diego CA. Andrew Bhatia Let me rephrase: In this murky situation, however, the two men dont need honorary titles. Todd uses God to accomplish his goals ofRead more , We briefly visited WM; I quickly told my husband, this place is the cult of Todd and will implode without him. Thats not Todds fault, but no thanks. so what. There are many issues at Watermark. But that doesnt mean the group has to follow the rules automatically create an account for you you! Me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the people who attend Watermark due to our 10 stay... 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In Wagners leadership all as brave as todd to resign or be open about confession or higher! Went to the same concept as we moved on to adult Sunday.... Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders at Watermark along! A charity outside of our church well gladly help you site requires people.
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